Beeson Podcast, Episode #710 Josiah & Callie Trombley Date >>Announcer: Welcome to the Beeson podcast, coming to you from Beeson Divinity School on the campus of Samford University. Now your host, Doug Sweeney. >>Doug Sweeney: Welcome to the Beeson Podcast. I am your host, Doug Sweeney and I’m joined today by Josiah and Callie Trombley, dear friends to many at Beeson. Callie is the program assistant of our Global Center and Josiah is a soon-to-be Beeson graduate who is moving on to serve the Lord in congregational ministry in Texas, and then down the road in chaplaincy with the Navy. So, Callie, Josiah, thanks for being with me. >>Josiah Trombley: Thank you for having us. >>Callie Trombley: Thanks for having us. >>Doug Sweeney: Alright, let’s introduce you, first of all, to our listeners before we talk about what God’s been doing in your lives recently. How did you come to know the Lord? How did you come to faith in Christ to begin with? And then how did you sense, individually and as a couple, that the Lord was pulling you into full-time ministry? And maybe Callie, we can start with you. >>Callie Trombley Okay. Sure. So, I’m very grateful to have been raised in a Christian family. By the grace of God, I’m the fifth generation of my family to be in credentialed ministry. And a fun fact that my mom and grandfather always like to share is that in each of those generations, there’s been at least one woman who served in full-time ministry in some capacity. >>Doug Sweeney: Wow, for five generations. >>Callie Trombley: For five generations. >>Doug Sweeney: That’s pretty amazing. >>Callie Trombley: So, very grateful for that heritage, and then that’s part of my testimony. My mom was also a military chaplain, so I was raised in a pastor’s home as well as a military home. So, that was huge in shaping who I am today. Little did I know that the Lord was going to use that to prepare me to become a military spouse and now a military mom. And so, grateful for that. I really, my faith became my own probably my junior year at high school was when I started really reading the Bible for myself and practicing the spiritual disciplines for myself, felt a call to ministry, perused and undergraduate degree in Christian ministry. Then my junior year of college, there was a pivotal moment for me where just due to some unforeseen, unfortunate circumstances as well as just some poor decisions on my part, just ended up in an emergency room getting prepped for an emergency surgery and having a nurse telling me there’s something keeping you alive, you shouldn’t be able to breath on your own. And that was a wakeup call for me that the Lord had a purpose and a plan for my life and every day that I’m here, there’s a purpose and a plan and I wanted to start living that way. And so, that was a huge change and a huge shift for me. And then a year to the day after that, I was preaching at a pastor’s conference in a rural village that was outside of Uganda. And so, it was just God’s grace in my life in that way. After I graduated college, I started seminary at Asbury, pursued a masters in intercultural studies with an emphasis in church planting, looking at doing some form of cross-cultural ministry. In that time, I was ordained in the International Pentecostal Holiness Church, met Josiah, and here we are. >>>Doug Sweeney: Alright Josiah, tell us just a little bit about your background, especially your spiritual background. How did you come to faith? And how did you get involved in full-time ministry? >>Josiah Trombley: So, I was also raised in a Christian home, Southern Baptist parents. I was part of the all-state youth choir in North Carolina. I was baptized at seven years old. And like many people in the south, there was kind of this thought, maybe not always said, but if I do everything right, then God’s going to take care of the rest, and my life will go great, and all my visions and goals and plans will go well, and that’s kind of the mentality I had. And then I went into school, in public school, went into middle school and heavily bullied in middle school, had a lot of difficulties. There were family difficulties. We also went to a school that doesn’t exist now but was a very strict school that had some unfortunate things happen at it. That was a private school, so there was a lot of hurt in our family. I tried coping with that with so many things; drugs, alcohol, pornography, seeking attentions and approval from people in high school after middle school. And it really was in community college when I had a friend in choir. She invited me to her church, and I went to her church, and talked with people there and I talked with Pastor Kirkman at the small church, and I really just bore my heart out to him and disclosed everything I had been struggling with, and he walked me through that and pastored me. And that’s where a new level of my faith of trusting in Christ, it was just deeper and walking honestly with the Lord in that way. From there, people started to see, hey, there might be a calling here, calling to ministry. I didn’t know exactly what that meant. I started to kind of pray about that. I was part of a lot of evangelistic, I mean just street evangelism, going to Walmart, going on the street praying for people, sharing the gospel, being a part of prayer ministries around my hometown in New Bern and praying with leaders there. And there was a sense that either I was going to go into missions or chaplaincy. I didn’t know which. I had a friend invite me to speak with a recruiter in the military. Not knowing what recruiters were about, I thought I was kind of his resume person to talk him up and they were trying to recruit me, and I had no interest. But I prayed about it and had a sense that maybe there is something here. So, I enlisted in the Navy, have served since 2016 in the reserve to really discern, is this for me? I wanted to know what it’s like to be a sailor before I got to serve and minister to sailors. So, that’s what I’ve been doing as a mass communications specialist. I met Callie. I started going to an Anglican church right before going to boot camp. Started going to church in the Anglican church in North America. Eventually did a discernment process and then that’s really where there was an affirmation, yes, you are called to ministry and specifically, military chaplaincy. >>Doug Sweeney: Yeah. So, did you go to college with ministry in mind or did God use college to kind of help you figure things out? >>Josiah Trombley: College was to help figure things out. So, I had an associate’s in fine art music already. I had some training with the military in public affairs, basically. So, I thought, well, I can go to school and discern that, discern ministry, while also advancing my military career by getting a degree in digital media productions. And it’s been beautiful to see how the Lord’s used that degree in ministry as well. >>Doug Sweeney: Yeah. Well, while the part of your story that has to do with God leading you into the Navy is still fresh in our minds, and because chaplaincy ministry is a pretty special kind of ministry, and it’s, at least any seminary I’ve ever known, it’s only a minority of the students in the seminary who are thinking about chaplaincy. Just tell us a little bit about that. How did you get interested in naval chaplaincy, in particular? And how has your interest in chaplaincy just sort of affected the way you’ve been, and you’ve sort of gone through divinity school, and you process things like ordination? >>Josiah Trombley: So, I really didn’t know what chaplaincy meant when I first started discerning it and it was really talking through with other members and talking with chaplains about what they do in order to understand what it was. So, one of my assignments, if you will, during my ACE School for the Navy, kind of my technical training for the job or the rate that I have in the Navy, I interviewed a chaplain and what is chaplaincy about. The colonel I interviewed, he told me all about what chaplaincy was like and how he as a chaplain needed a chaplain at times. >>Doug Sweeney: So, what is it? For those who have men in the service and just wouldn’t know this automatically, what is chaplaincy like? What do the chaplains do? >>Callie Trombley: That’s a good question. >>Josiah Trombley: It is a great question. Chaplaincy, even outside of the military, is when you’re in an institution that has needs and expectations and you’re coming in with the authority of that institution to be able to care spiritually for those in that institution. But you’re not endorsed by that institution. You have an endorsing body. So, that may, you know, for Christians, that would be some Christian denomination. But it expands outside of Christianity as well. There are all sorts of chaplains out there. >>Doug Sweeney: Yeah. >>Josiah Trombley: So, that’s the baseline of what a chaplain does. In the military, it’s going to look different for every branch what those primary responsibilities are and I’m not in it yet, but the ones that I’ve talked to, the Navy chaplains, there’s a lot of meeting one on one. You have divine services, which is really whatever you’re doing in the way that you’re serving as a chaplain and caring spiritually. So, for an Anglican chaplain, officiating holy communion, having a weekly Sunday service, morning and evening prayer, hearing confession, meeting with people and catechizing them. And it’s really going out to where people are and meeting them in the hard places. So, for hospital chaplaincy, that could be in the ER or kind of death bed. In the military, that could be in the hard places in marriages or in difficult situations, or even in the mundane where there’s a disagreement in a command that you’re there for disagreement and resolving that tension. >>Doug Sweeney: Yeah. >>Josiah Trombley: So, that’s kind of chaplaincy in a broad sense, in military chaplaincy as well. >>Doug Sweeney: Yeah, that’s great. And at Beeson, we want people to know there’s a nice amount of scholarship money for people who are being led by God into military chaplaincy ministry. But if that’s you, and it has been you Josiah, so does that change anything about the way you go through the Master of Divinity program? Or are there specific classes you wanted to make sure you took? Or what difference does it make for being a seminary student? >>Josiah Trombley: Absolutely. The difference that it makes is always, there are two differences it makes. So, the first is how am I taking the information that I’m learning, the theology, the pastoral care, everything that I’m learning, and not just in mind, but in heart and our wholistic learning theologically, and how am able not only to equip believers, but also convey the gospel to unbelievers who may not have any biblical background? Whereas we have the advantage, a lot of times, if we’re already in a denomination, or in a parish, or a church, a ministry setting, we kind of assume biblical literacy. We assume people know things about the Bible and basic concepts and you can’t always assume that in chaplaincy. So, that’s always in the back of mind taking classes. The second is an interdenominational environment in the chaplaincy. So, you have to be able to know or you can agree or disagree with other denominations where you can partner in the gospel together knowing, hey, this is where we may part ways or what we can’t do together but what we can. And Beeson’s really set us up really well for that, I would say, because we’re in classes with so many different denominations. It’s not squishy. It’s not oh, we’ll just not talk about our differences. We’ll really talk and engage seriously about what our differences are, about scripture, about maybe ecclesiology, all these different faucets and learn from each other and kind of respect each other on our own terms. >>Doug Sweeney: Yeah. That’s a great segway to the next question I wanted to ask you, Josiah. And that is, so why did you come to Beeson? How did you figure out that Beeson was for you? And then if I can put part B onto the question, honestly, what has Beeson been like for you? There’s lots of people who listen to the podcast who are trying to figure out whether God wants them to go to seminary. What does Josiah want these people to know about Beeson as an option? >>Josiah Trombley: So, we looked at a couple of school that are approved by the Anglican Church in North America and all of those schools are great schools. We seriously discerned them. I would encourage anybody to discern those schools that your denomination endorses, to pray through them. I actually remember our initial interview with you over zoom during covid. You had said, “If the Lord doesn’t want you here, we don’t want you here. But if the Lord wants you here, we want you here. So, let’s pray for the discernment.” >>Doug Sweeney: Yeah. >>Josiah Trombley: That freedom to do that and kind of not a “this is why we’re the best out there and we’re the best thing since sliced bread” was really, that humility was really helpful. But also, serious engagement with scripture. I had some Greek in my undergrad with some extra credits that I had, and the languages were deeply important to understand God’s word. It gives us a certain depth dimension to the scriptures that is hard to describe until you’re really in it. But it gives such a depth dimension to understand God’s word and enriches your life and your future service in ministry. This was not something I had discerned but one of my favorite parts now, if not my favorite, and that’s the history and doctrine sequence. I didn’t know that was a big part of Beeson and I have loved reading all the people that it’s been emphasized to me by every professor. We’re reading pastors. We are reading ministers, even the ones you really don’t like, maybe like Schleiermacher was a hospital chaplain, right. All of these people were in ministry. So, there are these different faucets that we’ve discerned. And then the interdenominational aspect. And something that Kyle Young said to me that really stood out to me as an Anglican, I asked how do you shape your ministers sacramentally for ministry? There was different things we could talk about. >>Doug Sweeney: People need to know, Kyle Young is our admission head and is a Baptist, not an Anglican. >>Joshiah Trombley: That’s right. >>Callie Trombley: Yes. >>Doug Sweeney: So, that’s actually a question to ask him. >>Josiah Trombley: Right. So, I said, you know, theologically, biblically, and then I said sacramentally. And he said, well, Beeson is not a church, but we sure want you to be in the local parish. And so, where the sacraments are administered are in the church. So, you need to be involved with the church, you need to be serving in the church, you need to be as the part of the body of Christ in the church. And that really spoke to me. There wasn’t a kind of separated-ness that happened, a separateness of Beeson over here and then oh, there’s a church over here. Very integrated. You’ll see all the time, the pastors that are around town are here at Beeson and there’s engaging conversations. That was a huge draw for us. >>Callie Trombley: And I would add too, just the incarnational aspect. I was probably a little bit slower on that horse, initially, having done a hybrid program myself at Asbury. So, one of the first questions I asked is, is there a way to do this somewhat hybrid? And we realized that we were counting the cost to come, but the retrospective is 20/20 and we could not imagine doing it any other way. And the friendships that we’ve formed here, the mentorships that’s been formed here, all of that has just been such a critical part of Beeson and probably one of the hardest things that we’re going to have to leave when our time is done. But it’s just been so poignant to have that time together, especially with the interdenominational context moving into miliary chaplaincy, that Josiah and me, at any point in time, be working alongside Presbyterians, Episcopal, Methodists, Wesleyans, Baptist and he’s been formed and shaped by those same voices. And you know, we also have lifelong friendships that we are never going to lose. We have a network of care and support that’s going to go beyond that, not only for peers, but for people like you and Wilma and others who have just poured into our lives our entire time here. And that incarnational aspect has been so huge and we, I’m grateful just that the door opened that we can do it so closely together and walk through this season that way. But I would say the incarnational aspect too is probably one of the most beautiful parts of our time here at Beeson. >>Josiah Trombley: And I would say my time reflecting on our time here at Beeson, every step of the way we can see God’s providential hand. We didn’t have a place to live when we first moved here two days before class. And Rob Willis, who is the manager of media center, and Kyle Young reached out to Christ the King Anglican Church and Grant and Amy Henley took care of us and took us in. >>Doug Sweeney: I remember well. >>Josiah Trombley: And they took us in and cared for us and very kind to us. We called them our Birmingham parents. And then a year later, we had some health difficulties, and everyone pitched in meals, prayer, and accommodation for work for these medical situations. Really caring. And through those times, I remember reading scripture that we were learning in class and for example, reading Martin Luther and reading and it wasn’t just, now what did they say so I can write a paper, but it was truly ministering to me in that moment. So, I can see the providential hand throughout the whole time. Meeting those who have donated scholarships. We would not have been able to be here without those scholarships that we’re so grateful for. So, reflecting back, I’m just so grateful that we’ve truly, honestly been shaped, not in an easy way. It’s very difficult academically. There have been sufferings and hardships as well. But the Lord has been with us every step of the way in forming us in the community of Beeson, in Christ the Kind Anglican Church, and we’re so grateful. >>Doug Sweeney: Yeah. I hadn’t thought ahead of time about mentioning this during our interview, but as I reflect back on your time here, it’s been full of trials. It hasn’t just been a cake walk for you two. >>Callie Trombley: A little bit. >>Doug Sweeney: Everything from kind of health trials to even after you got an apartment, there were some issues with the apartment, you know, all kinds, like one thing after another kept coming up. And somehow, God has given you, not like every second of it, but generally speaking, a lot of joy in the midst of the trials you’ve gone through. >>Callie Trombley: Very much so. >>Josiah Trombley: I’m reminded of a sermon we heard from Dr. Smith. We affectionately call him Papa Smith. But Dr. Smith preached on our Gilgal, and it was such a ministering moment, and looking at God’s providence of have you ever been to Gilgal, and then being reminded from Dr. George recently preaching of is there a balm in Gilead, there is a balm in Gilead. And it was kind of a closing moment of Gilgal and Gilead of God’s care for us throughout this whole time. >>Doug Sweeney: Yeah. That’s wonderful. Callie, let’s talk just a little bit more about your experience here. You’ve mentioned it already, but you came here as someone who’d already been to seminary and now it was your husband’s turn to do his MDiv and you had to figure out what life was going to be like for you while he did his MDiv, and you’ve wound up ministering on the administrative staff. So, tell folks what you have done here, what your experience has been like, and what it’s been like, in your case, not being the seminary student these last few years yourself, but being the wife of one. >>Callie Trombley: Yeah. The Lord opened a door shortly before we came. Anna Russel, who is currently the director or the events coordinator and the director for our Center for Women in Ministry was in my role previously and had transitioned out as we were making our shift here. I had Kristin Padilla, our former marketing communications director and the former director of the Center for Women in Ministry, gave me a call because she knew I had a ministry background, and she was just trying to get a feel for what all experience I had. And when she heard a little bit more about my background and my degree, she was like, do you know about The Global Center? And again, Josiah and I had not had a chance to be on campus for any preview days because we were applying through the heat of covid. So, I was like, no, what is this Global Center? And so, she told me a little bit more about it and as soon as the position was posted on Samford’s website, I was constantly checking, and I applied and got an interview about a month after we arrived here. And it’s just been such a gift for so many reasons. One, just to get to be able to continue to minister in the calling that I feel like the Lord’s placed on my life. But again, just being able to walk and have a front row seat, along with Josiah, during this journey. But my work at The Global Center, lot of administrative behind-the-scenes details. Probably my favorite aspect of the job is getting to work with students throughout their cross-cultural ministry practicum from start to finish of just joining students as they pray, and they discern where the Lord is calling them. >>Doug Sweeney: The listeners may need just 30 seconds about- >>Callie Trombley: Sure. >>Doug Sweeney: So, what is this practicum thing you’re talking about? >>Callie Trombley: Yes. For sure. So, all of our Master of Divinity students are required to do a cross-cultural ministry practicum, which is at least two weeks in a cross-cultural context, whether domestic or international. Typically, it happens between the second and third year during the summer. And it’s an opportunity for them to take everything that they’ve been learning in the classroom and then observe it in a culture and a context that they’re not used to. It’s an opportunity for them to learn how to exegete an interpretive culture and then to apply the ministry that they’ve been given at Beeson. And so, getting to work with our partners and helping curate these trips and then getting to work with students to help them figure out what’s the best fit for them, whether that’s because of the ministry that they’re hoping to go into, family concerns, financial concerns, and walk with them through that. Answer questions, pray with them because it can be very daunting, especially for some of our students who this may be their first time ever going outside of the country, or if they’re students with young families and they have to leave their spouse and children behind for two weeks, or they’re having to take time off. Just the stories, again, of God’s providence and provision and just ensuring that if God’s called them to this, God’s going to equip them for it and God’s going to provide for them. So, getting to see that and seeing the way the Lord works. All of the details ahead of time, but then just hearing the stories afterwards of what God has done in them, through them, the takeaways that they have for the trip, the way that their perspectives have been so drastically shifted, and they way that they just fall in love with another culture because that’s so much my heart and so much of my passion. And so, it was great to be able to take so much of what I had learned and studied and experienced at Asbury and then get to put into play here. But it also feels very pastoral at times of just getting to have those conversations with students and love on them and pray with the in that way. I do a lot of what one of my mom’s former commanding officers called ad-ministry where it’s a lot of behind-the-scenes details and that’s just been something that the Lord’s really grown my heart and my passion for at my time in Beeson, and just how critical the service behind-the-scenes is, and just giving me a great heart for. Had the opportunity to preach at our women’s retreat for our new students back in the fall and talked about Stephen and the importance of serving tables and that, you know, the disciples didn’t want that task to be neglected and so the Lord led them to specifically appoint these seven men to be able to do that and that serving tables is ultimately one of our primary calls as servants of Christ. That’s what Christ did and so having the opportunity to serve tables in a variety of contexts at Beeson has just given me an opportunity to meet students in a different way, to have conversations with them over meals, over cups of coffee, and I really love that aspect of my job. And then it’s not in my job description, but also getting to work alongside your lovely bride, Wilma. >>Doug Sweeney: Yes, with some teaching ministry. >>Callie Trombley: Yes. Yeah, and getting to work with the Beeson wives, and help lead the book discussion in our book club, and so grateful just for that. To answer the other half of your question, what is it like being a spouse of one, realizing that one of my primary ministries is being able to support us financially so that Josiah can be a full-time student. It’s also just reminding him, at times, of that providence of God, of helping him realize the big picture, at times. But also sometimes, it’s helping him kind of take a step away and do something fun and not worry about the tasks in front of him. But having a community like the Beeson wives, to share that burden with other Beeson wives who are walking through that who feel the stress that their husbands are enduring as they’re trying to balance the workload, as they’re trying to be good husbands, but also just having people that we can laugh with but know the same kind of financial burden that comes with working part-time, full-time to support your husband while he’s in that so that he can do it, and just having sweet, sweet memories and sweet times of fellowship with them, that’s kind of been the added bonus. And so, I’m very grateful for that. But it's just been, it’s fun to be able to walk alongside him. I am grateful for the ability to hopefully empathize with him, having walked through seminary myself and knowing that it’s a full-time job in and of itself in addition to working multiple part-time jobs for him, but that it’s an experience that you’ll never forget and it’s one of the sweetest seasons you’ll ever walk through. So, I’m grateful that the Lord kind of foreordained that. I had walked through my seminary journey mostly before I’d met Josiah. We had met my last year, I think, of seminary and so he kind of walked through it with me, but at a distance. So, it was fun to get to walk through it with him. >>Doug Sweeney: Yeah. Alright, well why don’t we, at the end of our conversation, just talk a little bit about what God has in store for you moving forward. Our listeners haven’t heard this yet, but you are expecting a baby. That’s a very important thing that God has for you moving forward. You’re about to graduate, Josiah, next month and the two of you are getting ready for a parish ministry assignment. So, just tell our listeners, I don’t care what order I guess, maybe Callie, you’ve been talking. You can start maybe a little bit. >>Callie Trombley: Sure. >>Doug Sweeney: How exciting is it? How scary is it? What are you thinking about as you sort of move from Beeson into the next stage of life in ministry? >>Callie Trombley: For sure. It’s exciting and scary. This is our first child. A little girl. She’s due in February. We’re very grateful. We’d been praying for a child for a while and just the Lord’s will on when to start a family. And so, it feels very sweet that that’s kind of coming. We’re still getting to experience that with some of our Beeson family. We’ve already said we’re going to have to bring her back to meet everyone. >>Doug Sweeney: Yes. >>Callie Trombley: But yeah, so I’m excited as, you know, we are prayerfully just discerning what comes next after Beeson. I really just felt like if the Lord was going to allow us to have a child, I felt like my next full-time job was going to be being a mom and just having that opportunity to stay at home with our, at least, child, maybe children. Who knows. And just minister in that way. Something that my mom always said was that she valued the fact that the first altar that my brothers and I prayed at was her lap and knowing that that’s an opportunity for me. So, that’s what I’m looking forward to. It’ll be odd. This will be my first time not having an official job title or position. I’ve been working since I was 16, so it’s going to be a little different. No doubt, we’ll still be busy. But we’re really excited. I’m really excited to meet her and to have the opportunity of being a mom and I’m really looking forward to that. >>Doug Sweeney: Alright. So, Josiah, what else? You’re getting ready to graduate and move on to bigger and better things. How can we be thinking you through and praying you through what lies ahead for you? >>Josiah Trombley: So, we’re going to have to move, so the logistics of all of that. Prayers for that. Prayers for Christ our King, which is where we’re going. We’re going from Christ the King Anglican Church here in Birmingham to Christ our King in New Braunfels, Texas. So, prayers for that. I’ll primarily be overseeing young adults in youth ministry and I’m very excited. Just prayers that the Lord would cause the gospel to flourish in people’s lives, that we would connect well and grow with the community and the church there. And we talked a little bit about this in our mentor group today, but that I would walk in true humility and learn and grow as a priest from Father Chuck Thebeau, who is there, and learn in humility from someone who’s been in ministry for a much longer time than I have and who has much more wisdom than I do. Prayers that we continue to grow as a mother and a father. And there’s been so much with God’s providential hand in that and just seeing how God loves us already and in the way that we love our little girl. And so, prayers to be faithful in that and to raise her up in the faith well. >>Doug Sweeney: Okay listeners, we have some more things to pray for, Josiah and Callie Trombley, their upcoming ministry in Texas, and the birth of their little girl in February. >>Callie Trombley: Yes sir. >>Doug Sweeney: What’s the due date, February what? >>Callie Trombley: February ninth. >>Doug Sweeney: Okay. I guess we’re not making any promises, but that’s when the doctors say it’s anticipated is February ninth delivery. Josiah and Callie, it’s been great, not just having you on the program, but having you here at Beeson and a wonderful privilege to be doing life together with you for a few years. And please don’t be strangers. You must bring this child back somehow. >>Callie Trombley: We will. >>Doug Sweeney: Work it out. >>Callie Trombley: Dr. Smith has already made some demands, so we will. >>Doug Sweeney: He has a kind of convening authority [crosstalk 00:33:20]. That’s great. Okay. Well, the Reverand Josaih Trombley, Callie Trombley, Beeson grads. Callie’s been a fantastic Beeson administrator, moving on to Texas. Thanks be to God and thanks for being with us. >>Callie Trombley: Thank you. >>Josiah Trombley: Thank you. >>Doug Sweeney: Goodbye for now. >>Announcer: You’ve been listening to the Beeson podcast; coming to you from the campus of Samford University. Our theme music is by Advent Birmingham. Our announcer is Mark Gignilliat. Our engineer is Rob Willis. Our producer is Neal Embry. And our show host is Doug Sweeney. For more episodes and to subscribe, visit BeesonDivinity.com/podcast. You can also find the Beeson Podcast on iTunes, YouTube, and Spotify.