Beeson Podcast, Episode #705
Dr. Cecelia Walker
Date

>>Announcer: 

Welcome to the Beeson podcast, coming to you from Beeson Divinity School on the campus of Samford University. Now your host, Doug Sweeney. 


>>Doug Sweeney:

Welcome to the Beeson Podcast. I’m your host, Doug Sweeney. I’m joined today by Dr. Cecilia Walker, our 2024 Beeson Alumni of the Year. Dr. Walker serves as Executive Director of Chaplaincy and Clinical Pastoral Education for Brookwood Baptist Health. She is a friend, an alumni, trustee of Samford University. We get to see her a lot and we’re really grateful to you, Cecilia, for being with us today. Thank you for joining us.


>>Walker:

Thank you for having me.


>>Doug Sweeney:	

I want to make sure we introduce you really well to all of our listeners. Some of whom probably know you already but some of whom don’t. So, can we start by just asking you – tell us a little bit about your childhood and how you came to be a Christian, a follower of Jesus, in the first place?


>>Walker:

I was born in Birmingham, Alabama. I’m a fourth generation Baptist. My grandfathers on both sides were Baptist ministers and all of my uncles were Baptist ministers. When I was growing up I would sit at my grandfather’s feet and he would read the bible while all my siblings would be doing whatever they were doing I just loved to hear him tell me stories from the bible. And he would read to me. 

It’s interesting that I remember that so well, because I was five years old when he died. But I do remember him saying to me, “Cece you’re going to do great things for God.” And in a little girl’s mind, “What is doing great things for God?” But then I started noticing my grandmother’s, especially how they would set up for mission meetings and how instrumental they were to them and their ministries at the church. I thought growing up that I couldn’t be a minister so I would be a pastor’s wife. And so that was really something that I was really moved by because it was so involved in the life of the church. So, active. And our home was always filled with opportunities of service and that’s really how I started just looking at them.

Both of my grandmothers were just wonderful Christian women. But then also the women in the neighborhood. Even as a little girl I would just go visiting these people who had to be like 60 years old or something. And I would spend the day at their houses, talking to them about their lives, talking to them about God, and so when I was nine years old I went forward at church to dedicate my life. I remember talking to my grandmother the night before, telling her that I wanted to be a Christian. And she cuddled me in her arms and she talked to me about that being the most important decision that I will ever make in my life. And then she sang the song to me, “Lord, I want to be a Christian.” And it was just such a special moment. The next day I went forward and confessed Christ in front of our church. We were having our first night of revival that night. So, it was just a wonderful experience for me.

I’ve always been active in church; trying to play instruments in the church in the Sunbeam Band in Sunday School, BTU ... if the church was open I wanted to be there and participating. And just loving God. I would just spend hours, literally, reading the bible and when I was about ten or eleven I started the practice of reading the bible throughout every year – just reading the whole bible. 


>>Doug Sweeney:

That’s impressive for a kid that age.


>>Walker:

That was just totally ... I know my family and siblings probably thought I was a little weird. I would climb in this tree that’s in the front yard and it has arms, it’s still there, and I would just cuddle up in that tree and read the bible. 


>>Doug Sweeney:

So, the time when you went forward at church, was that one of your grandfather’s churches or was that a different church?


>>Walker:

It was at my grandfather’s church. He was no longer the pastor there because he was deceased by that time. But that’s the church I went forward in.


>>Doug Sweeney:

Marvelous. All right. So, how do you get from being a spiritually precocious young person to Beeson Divinity School, to thinking maybe chaplaincy ministry is for you? I think I know from hearing your story before in another context that for a while you were a librarian. How did chaplaincy become a reality for you?


>>Walker:

Well, I had been at the library, working at the library for 18 years. One year at the central library downtown and then Avondale library for 17 years. And that was really an exciting thing for me because I used to also go to the library and sit in the stacks and read all day. At the end of the day they would be saying, “Cece, are you in the stacks?” (laughter) They’d kick me out. And so I thought that was just what I would do, but I was praying for people, people would come to the library and they would ask me to pray for them and so I would take them into the auditorium and have prayer. And I had this really strong urge that there was more for me to do for God. But I had no idea how to make that happen. But I just felt strongly that God was calling me into ministry. 

So, my husband Jeffrey had died. My father also had died a couple of years before that. I was just really leaning on my faith during that time. And I felt God calling me to ministry and that he wanted me trained. And I didn’t know where to start but I knew of Beeson. So, I said, well, I’ll go over and talk ... it’s not going to happen, they’re not going to accept me. Just thinking all kinds of thoughts. Didn’t know anything really about the process. I came over and the person who did my interview, the first thing he did was pray with me. 

I was like, oh my goodness – a school where they pray!? Having gone to Ohio State, gone to Birmingham Southern, nobody had ever prayed for me in an interview to go to school. And so I filled out the application, got accepted, then I said Beeson only has classes during the day. There’s no weekend, no night, and I worked full time. And I was in a troubled marriage. So, I was really the sole provider for my children. And I was like, there is no way that they’re going to let me go to Beeson during the day.

But I went in and I asked my director if I could go to Beeson during the day. And at that time the library was open until 9:00 PM every night, Monday-Thursday, open on the weekends. And I said, I will work every night and every weekend if you’ll let me do that. And my mom would keep my kids. And so without hesitation she said, “yes.” And I said, God is just opening these doors, opening these doors. That’s how I got to Beeson, just feeling God calling me to be educated and trained. And coming in here and God making it happen for me.


>>Doug Sweeney:

When you started at Beeson were you already thinking maybe chaplaincy ministry? You’d had the deaths of close relatives and maybe had a significant time with chaplains in the hospital from that kind of thing. Or you just had no idea at that point where the Lord was leading you?


>>Walker:

Had no idea. One of my brothers, my family is really close, but he is very stoic, he’s served in the Army. He cried. He said, “You are right where you want to be, tracking to become the director of Birmingham Public Library Systems. What are you-“


>Doug Sweeney:

Oh, he cried because he was upset! Oh!


>>Walker:

He said, “Why are you doing this? You’re a Baptist woman. What are you going to do?” And I said, I know this is God’s voice. I just know that this is what I’m supposed to do. And so Dean George asked the question every year – why are you here? Where does God ... and I would say, I don’t know but I know God’s voice. But toward the end ... now I need gainful employment. I need to do something. And I started thinking about the day that my father died. And he died at a local hospital here and it was mishandled in every way. It was horrific. My mom and I were traumatized by the way it was handled. My husband died two years later at St. Vincent’s. And a chaplain came. He asked me did I want to see Jeffrey and I said, no. Remembering what I had experienced before.

He said, “Well, I think that it would really be good and good closure for you. I will be with you.” My mom was there. And both of us went back and it was like Jeffrey was sleeping. And the chaplain was just present. And prayed with us. And just really helped us through such a horrific time. Unexpected time. And so at the end of my time at Beeson I started thinking, well, maybe I should call that chaplain and find out how you become a chaplain. Because people were always coming to the library asking me to pray for them, it’s been my life that I’ve always been offering support to people.

And he explained about getting CPE and the whole process. And so I applied for my first unit and it was not easy. When I got into it I remember crying one day – the first day that I visited my verbatim, my first verbatim. I cried from 1:00 in the afternoon to 9:00 at night. 


>>>Doug Sweeney:

Just for our listeners, what is a verbatim?


>>Walker:

Verbatim is a case study or an explanation or ... when you go and visit someone, the patient said this, the chaplain said that. And I cried because it just touched deep places of grief in me. And I just felt like I needed to get out of this. I said this is not for me. And I was speaking to one of my friends and she said, “That’s exactly why you need to stay because you care enough.” Because I wasn’t crying as much for me as for what the patient was going through. And she said they need people who will be an advocate. They need people who care. And so I stayed and got the bug after that unit and yeah.


>>Doug Sweeney:

I’m thinking about some listeners to this podcast who may be wondering, “Is chaplaincy something maybe that could be for me?” I don’t know. I guess if I were your friend way back then and I knew all about that you loved to shut the library down reading books and that kind of thing, bookworms aren’t always also people with good bedside manner, right? I mean, in your case obviously, you’re both. But how do you ... if you’re trying to figure out is chaplaincy a viable option for me, might the Lord have gifted me for this, is he moving me in this direction? What should that discernment process go like in your view?


>>Walker:

First of all, just having extreme compassion. I mean, for me, I’ve always been super compassionate, always wanting to support, and just open to people in general. Like I said, I would hang out with the senior women in the community when other kids, they were done with it, they didn’t have anything to say. A person who is drawn to a diverse population. So, I can be a child and play with my friends but I can also sit down and talk for hours literally with these seniors. And if people were sick I was always empathic about that and wanted to support and be there – bake little things for them and go visit, have prayer with them. 

If you’re a person who just prays for folks – I mean, I would pray ... if I heard someone was in an accident I would just pray for them. I didn’t have to know you. If I hear a news story I would pray. So, people who are drawn to be prayerful and pray for people whether they know them or not, whether they are like them or not. I think that’s the first cue.

Then that people come to you, they see something in you that you can keep confidences, that you’re not judgmental, you can accept and hear a person’s story and not necessarily agree with everything that they’re doing but to be able to hear them and to speak and not be judgmental.

I think being quiet, I’m an introvert really. I think that’s helpful. Yeah. So, if a person is quiet and a bookworm or really ... because in reading books the kinds of books I always read were autobiographies and biographies. Always attracted to the story, the person’s story. 


>>Doug Sweeney:

Can you take just a minute or two and tell us about a couple of the different jobs you’ve had as a chaplain? To kind of put flesh on this possibly for people?


>>Walker:

I started out as a chaplain intern. So, that’s the first step generally that we would take to sort of see if you have the stomach for the work. Because most of the time people don’t call you as a chaplain to celebrate. I get a few calls – come bless the baby, kind of thing. But most of the time it’s that trauma or crisis. So, the first unit is to help us know whether or not that’s something that we can even do. And is it a good fit? So, it would be good to take one unit to just check that out.

Then I took a residency. I ended up doing two years of residency. The first one was just learning generalist. I was learning all of the different departments in the hospital. So, I would be on call seven times a month and at that time we would be there 24 hours. And so just doing that work. And it just opened me up. And my mom was so concerned about me. Because she said, “You’re my happy child. You’re the child who wakes up smiling every day. This is going to depress you.” But it didn’t. It was fulfilling to be present with people in those times. So, that first year I just spent that kind of time getting to be in the ED all over the hospital. 

But the next year I was assigned to the psych unit. And at that time at Princeton we had a full psych unit. So, all kinds of experiences there. And so I specialized in working with psych patients. And doing that work. 

When I left there I went to UAB. A position opened as the trauma burns fellow. So, I was assigned to the trauma department, the emergency department, and burns. I had no idea if I would be able to be with burn patients. And even in the interview they asked me what draws you to this? I said I need a job. (laughs) I want to be a chaplain so I will try. I will do my best. And I fell in love with that work. To the point that I would be with patients who were burned and when they would do the breathing that they have to do over their wounds I would be in the room with them and sing with them and pray with them. And their blood pressure would go down. And so it became a thing that the doctors would ask, “Can you be present with our patient?” 


>>Doug Sweeney:

Let’s get Cecilia in here!


>>Walker:

And I noticed that it worked when I’d be in the room with them and sometimes they would be in pain and I would just pray or start singing with them. So, I did that for a couple of years and then became the trauma burns chaplain for UAB. And then moved into supervision. 


>>Doug Sweeney:

Yeah. Now you’re one of the most significant leaders in our region when it comes to working with chaplains and you’re really good to Beeson students who are interested in chaplaincy. So, thank you very much.


>>Walker:

Yes. I love it. I’m the president of the ACPE. It’s amazing how those things have just happened. And I would say, too, it’s so important for us to be authentically who we are, unapologetically Christian. But ACPE is not a Christian organization. And a lot of people who go into chaplaincy or have heard about it hesitate because they think that we have to compromise. And that’s not the case. Because even when I was in my training to become an educator – if being authentically Christian, my theologians chiefly being Jesus and Dr. Martin Luther King, that’s going to keep me from being there ten God doesn’t want me there.

So, I don’t want people to hesitate because they are Christian in their perspective and think that there’s no room. There’s plenty of room for us to do this ministry.


>>Doug Sweeney:

Let me ask you just one follow-up question on discerning if chaplaincy is for you before we move to other topics. So, I feel like my personality is similar to yours. I’m a bookworm. I lean more on the introverted side. I’m plenty compassionate but sometimes I think I’m too sensitive for my own good. And when I imagine myself doing your job I honestly wonder if I’m tough enough to do your job. I imagine myself being with sick kids and it really affecting me in a powerful way. How tough, or maybe that’s the wrong word, how emotionally resilient do you need to be to thrive as a chaplain?


>>Walker:

I don’t know about how resilient, but you need good boundaries. I’ve worked at Children’s in fact as well. And that is a hard assignment – to see babies suffering like that. But I have a therapeutic relationship. I enjoy my own family. I have my own friends. And one of the best pieces of advice I got even as an intern was I had a patient I had gotten really attached to. She was basically in a coma. And I would go and be with her family, even when I was supposed to be off the clock. And I chart, not knowing any better, I put it in the chart. And the director saw it. And he said, “You will never be able to sustain that. So, you need to ... when you’re off, you need to be off. You need to trust that God will send someone else. Maybe not just like you, but someone else to do the work.” And so he taught me about boundaries. And so understanding that it’s not my child, it’s not me that’s going through this and being able to separate it. But also being authentically ... if tears come, tears come. I don’t have to work it up. But to just be present with them.

I think the therapeutic relationship and healthy boundaries and a good family life. 


>>Doug Sweeney:

Yeah. All right. I want to remind everybody you are our alumni of the year this year. Which is a pretty big deal. In part because you’re one of our favorite alums of all. In part because of the significance of your ministry in chaplaincy in our region and beyond. In part because you’re just so good to Beeson Divinity students who are thinking maybe the Lord has chaplaincy ministry for them. 

Any word for people about the importance, at least in your story, maybe in the stories of others you’ve gotten to know over the years of seminary training for chaplaincy ministry? What was the significance of Beeson Divinity School in kind of forming and preparing you to be a chaplain?


>>Walker:

The thing that I love the most about Beeson was how the professors drew out things in me that I didn’t even know were there. The confidence – I have story after story of different professors saying how I could integrate this into my life and helping me to learn how to see how these stories fit in the current. And so I think seminary training is what sets us apart. And to get the best kind of training ... and I think Beeson is the best! So, I got great training, knowing how to integrate those biblical stories, the biblical texts, into everyday life. And to be able to use it to help me. It’s what helped me to make it through the loss of my children, the loss of my husband, knowing that bad things happen and God in his sovereignty has allowed it but God is hurting with me. 

I think that just having those kinds of professors. Having professors that were just real and down to earth and smart as can be. And it was just such a goal. They brought that excellence that you could get from the seminary life into the chaplaincy.


>>Doug Sweeney:

I imagine there’s a diversity of routes that you can take to get into chaplaincy ministry. But as somebody who has been coaching, shepherding, training lots of chaplains over the years, in your experience, do you recommend one or two routes as the best? What is the best way to get yourself ready maybe in school to be a faithful, fruitful, effective hospital chaplain in particular?


>>Walker:

I think to really take the studies seriously and develop that ability to be studious and always an active learner. Because even once you get into chaplaincy you need to keep reading, you need to keep learning, and keep growing and that’s a great start to that. Because you’re always having to think, always having to write papers. All of my chaplains have to write devotions. And I don’t want typos. I want it to be excellent. 


>>Doug Sweeney:

Way to go. Be strict. 


>>Walker:

Yes. And so having a seminary background and then you know how to really use the scripture in ways that are helpful to our audience. Because we’ve got hurting people and scared people. And so there are certain kinds of devotions that need to be delivered. So, I think the MDIV is still the premiere degree. I do. 


>>Doug Sweeney:

Preach it.


>>Walker:

Because I’ve seen how many ... all of our chaplains that are from Beeson and almost all of my chaplains have gone to Beeson. And all of them have the MDIV. And they just stand out. I have a few that went to schools and put together the 72 hours and there’s a difference. And there’s a learning curve. They’re excellent and they get excellent but it takes more. I think we’re more prepared with the MDIV.

>>Doug Sweeney:
Well, we sure are very proud of you here at Beeson Divinity School. And we thank you even for being willing to put up with all the things that the alumna of the year does over the course of the year as the alumna of the year. Tell us just a little bit ... we don’t have to spend a lot of time on this, but it’s pretty cool that you’re now a trustee of Samford University! You’re one of our bosses now. What is that like? What do you guys do? What do the trustees of Samford do?

>>Walker:
Well, it’s so exciting. One day I was riding by Samford, one of my favorite places to look at, it’s such a beautiful campus. And I told my husband, “I want to be on the board one day.” Just ... I didn’t even think it would even happen. And a couple of years later Dr. Westmoreland called and invited me. And we take seriously our student’s education, the culture, the spirituality, and we’re always ... I happen to be on the student affairs committee, which is perfect for me. Because I like working with the students, knowing how we’re helping to create diversity among our students. We’re in an accreditation year for my program, my CPE program, but in years past I’ve come and been in the commons on the campus and hung out with students to get to know them so that when we have our meetings I can talk about what the students are saying and what the students are sharing with me.
So, for my part it’s just to make sure that the different clubs that they bring on campus, we review those and review their constitutions and make sure that it’s in line with the mission of Samford. And we’re particularly involved in all of the expansions that are happening. Dr. Taylor presents the information, his ideas, and everything. And we’re able to see it. And now we’re seeing it come into fruition. It’s huge, isn’t it? 

>>Doug Sweeney:
Listeners who haven’t been to campus recently would be surprised. There’s a big crane looming over Divinity Hall and all kinds of building going on. 

>>Walker:
It’s amazing. So, just being involved in that for a place that I love so much. 
>>Doug Sweeney:
Thank you for doing it. Thank you for being such a wonderful minister of the gospel. And alumna of the year for Beeson. We’re about out of time. I like to end these interviews when we can by asking people like you who have been faithful and fruitful in ministry for a while now after all these years walking with the Lord, since you were a little kid in your grandfather’s church, can you testify to our listeners that the Lord is still teaching you things? You’re still growing? Is He still doing things in your life? What’s going on these days in Dr. Cecelia Walker’s life that we might conclude this podcast episode with as a way of just encouraging our listeners to be faithful in their own walks with the Lord?

>>Walker:
My favorite attribute of God is his faithfulness. I have a bracelet that I often wear that just says that he is faithful. And he surprises me all the time, opens doors, allows me opportunities to represent and speak. And most of the time I myself wouldn’t have the courage. But he stands up for me and supports me and has brought me through so many things that I wouldn’t even been able to make it if God hadn’t been with me. So, I just ... the sky is the limit with God. And all I want to do is serve Him and His people.

>>Doug Sweeney:

That’s a wonderful way to conclude. The Lord is faithful. And so are faithful servants of the Lord like Dr. Cecelia Walker. Thank you, Cecelia for being with us today. Listeners, this has been Dr. Cecelia Walker. I am proud to say she is our 2024 Beeson Alumna of the Year. Her day job is to work as executive director of chaplaincy and clinical pastoral education for Brookwood Baptist Health. She’s a wonderful encourager to lots of people in the Beeson family. We’re delighted to commend her and her ministry to you.
Listeners, we love you. We’re praying for you. We ask you to pray for Beeson Divinity School and the ministry of Dr. Walker. And we say goodbye for now. 

>>Mark Gignilliat:

You’ve been listening to the Beeson podcast; coming to you from the campus of Samford University. Our theme music is by Advent Birmingham. Our announcer is Mark Gignilliat. Our engineer is Rob Willis. Our Producer is Neal Embry. And our show host is Doug Sweeney. For more episodes and to subscribe, visit www.BeesonDivinity.com/podcast. You can also find the Beeson Podcast on iTunes, YouTube, and Spotify.